Curse

Surena · Nov 09, 2007, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Muppet

Agreed. I'm annoyed how rangers aren't powerful (but that just needs bow attack/bow damage increases ) or much use in pve, but LoD?

BHA + Epidemic is not powerful? That's pretty much the best castershutdown you could have.

Bankai · Nov 09, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman

I see Me/Mo LoD bars on the horizon.

No! Maybe Me/mo RC will see a return!

*cough*

Nov 09, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Amazing to see how many people relied so heavily on LoD.

people relied on LoD because the offensive power and the AoE power in this game is redicolusly owerpowerd already. now theres no valid counter.

zwei2stein · Nov 09, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

And here it comes again ... HP spam eles.

---

Can we now get better skills on GWEN mhenlo now that LoD was nuked? like removal of vigorous for empty slot ideally. or not making him cast it on people when party in under pressure.

Splinter nerf hurts, i would really prefer change of ai on VOD, like ... not balling in nukable spots. guess i can live with it thou.

Al least recall nerf was sane one and not interefering with its pve uses. /btw Rt/A recall can still drop ashes to do something after recall :-) /

A_Muppet · Nov 09, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Just had another thought. Back in the days of yore, pre factions my elite was Peace and Harmony. After this buff HB has, P&H is now simply redundant for a healer build.

odly · Nov 09, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Removing the conditional will fix the AI who would not use LOD unless the entire party was taking damage. I just hope the put holy haste on Mehnlo as well.

t h i n e eyes b l e e d · Nov 09, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

[QUOTE=Shuuda]Soul Reaping still get energy from minions and spirits.
Shadow Prison still exist.
Assassincaster still exist.

Soul reaping needs no nerfs... afterall it is SOUL reaping and spirits are bound souls and minion kinda have the soulf of the fallen enemy/ally

shadow prison.....Izzyyy!!! Get back to work!

assassin caster... unique

BlackSephir · Nov 09, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by t h i n e eyes b l e e d

Soul reaping needs no nerfs... afterall it is SOUL reaping and spirits are bound souls and minion kinda have the soulf of the fallen enemy/ally

Yeah, always a good laugh when someone tries one of those-
balance > semantics, y'know?

bungusmaximus · Nov 09, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Yeah, always a good laugh when someone tries one of those-
balance > semantics, y'know?

Apart from that, reaping souls of the already dead sounds just as clunky :P.

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 09, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Considering that it is impossible to perfectly balance all X number of the skills they created for over 6 different areas, I think they do a decent job of rotating. And noone here is a fanboy. I've shared my ammount of grievances with anet about as much as I've praised thier work.

If AoE is such a problem, and monks are having a tougher time mopping up the damage, why not buff a few self-heals? I remember when Healsig was used in GvG! Getting a war or mes to stop for a half a second to heal will help to compensate for the loss of party wide heals. I realize that adding a self heal to a few bars to replace a single skill can be seen negatively, but doesn't that tell you something about the skill being replaced (overpowered)?

Besides, if LoD affected splits as much as people are saying, those selfheals may be needed if they become a decent part of the meta again.

bungusmaximus · Nov 09, 2007, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Considering that it is impossible to perfectly balance all X number of the skills they created for over 6 different areas, I think they do a decent job of rotating. And noone here is a fanboy. I've shared my ammount of grievances with anet about as much as I've praised thier work.

If AoE is such a problem, and monks are having a tougher time mopping up the damage, why not buff a few self-heals? I remember when Healsig was used in GvG! Getting a war or mes to stop for a half a second to heal will help to compensate for the loss of party wide heals. I realize that adding a self heal to a few bars to replace a single skill can be seen negatively, but doesn't that tell you something about the skill being replaced (overpowered)?

Besides, if LoD affected splits as much as people are saying, those selfheals may be needed if they become a decent part of the meta again.

Is it just me or is Heal Sig your favouritwe suicide skill of choice? I never found any use for it apart from AB, where you can run off to cast it in peace. I don't know about GvG, but healsignet seems a bit outdated for me. I seen some guy in glads arena pose the idea to half the casting time, I think that's not even such a bad idea, probably have to reduce the heal so it won't become imba, but the largest problem imo lies in creating a 2 second window to use it.

Legacy Virus · Nov 09, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Heal Sig was actually used on gvg warriors pre nightfall and monks could call for a defensive mode when needed it was good times in the game to be honest.

Rift · Nov 09, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Is it really that bad now? I mean, 3 targets isn't too shabby either. hit 3 guys, they do 41 damage to 3 adjacent guys, still hits 9 guys for 41 damage=369 damage in 1 shot. Now tell me what other classes are capable of that? Lowering damage wouldn't haver helped, because the damage from splinterbarrage is more or less exponential, it would still go through the roof.

Ow my eyes. There's nothing exponential, it's linear at best...

Yes it is that bad, but to understand it you need a few mathematical concepts

It used to be a skill where the effectiveness grew linearly (O(n)) as 'n', the number of enemies grew, to a skill that has only a constant potential (O(1)).

So we have, pre nerf (Splinter/Barrager, chann=12):

4 (number of splintered attacks) x 41 (damage) x (n - 1) (number of targets)

and post:

4 (number of splintered attacks) x 41 (damage) x (3) (number of targets)

So for big ns, say Urgoz Warrent for example, the difference is staggering (use n = 12 for example). I mean, as an ele, you'd be crazy to bring Chain Lightning if you're facing a mob of 12+ creatures no?

Ele's do that much better now, since they can cast multiple AoE spells simultaneously at a snared mob. And you already see this in high-end dungeons where Rangers and Ritualists are now shun in favor of 4 Ele's

bungusmaximus · Nov 09, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rift

Ow my eyes. There's nothing exponential, it's linear at best...

Yes it is that bad, but to understand it you need a few mathematical concepts

It used to be a skill where the effectiveness grew linearly (O(n)) as 'n', the number of enemies grew, to a skill that has only a constant potential (O(1)).

So we have, pre nerf (Splinter/Barrager, chann=12):

4 (number of splintered attacks) x 41 (damage) x (n - 1) (number of targets)

and post:

4 (number of splintered attacks) x 41 (damage) x (3) (number of targets)

So for big ns, say Urgoz Warrent for example, the difference is staggering (use n = 12 for example). I mean, as an ele, you'd be crazy to bring Chain Lightning if you're facing a mob of 12+ creatures no?

Ele's do that much better now, since they can cast multiple AoE spells simultaneously at a snared mob. And you already see this in high-end dungeons where Rangers and Ritualists are now shun in favor of 4 Ele's

Hmm reading your post I understand I was talking out of my rear (and maths give me headaches, I hate it), on the other hand, your more accurate calculations show higher damage numbers then I calculated. Post nerf you are talking 492 damage/volley. The difference is indeed huge, but 492 damage is still OK imho.

absolutcrobi · Nov 09, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

damn, splinter weapon nerf....... dammit

bungusmaximus · Nov 09, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozy

After a few hours, i can once again confirm A.net know nothing about their own game.

Not only the update didn't help PvP much, it made playing PvE a total pain.
Unless you can find a few human monks who really know what they're doing (read: RARE), you're gonna scream at the screen after your hero monks prefer casting WoH on a healthy tank over your dying casters.

Yes, they were stupid before, but then we at least had LoD to make up for their blind targeting, now LoD is completely useless.
HB+HP you say? watch as they waste all their energy before the fight is over.

That's just one of the problems (most others are already mentioned on this thread), but at least the Wammos are happy, right?...

I would go for a N/Mo HB healer in such a case, I'm gonna test that as soon as I dragged my hairy arse home. If I'm right HB can serve as substitute for Divine Favor.

Frozy · Nov 09, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I would go for a N/Mo HB healer in such a case, I'm gonna test that as soon as I dragged my hairy arse home. If I'm right HB can serve as substitute for Divine Favor.

There are ways around these problems, but why should we go through such a pain in the first place? was there a good purpose behind these changes? i don't see one.

I really hope they read this thread (... and not busy playing TF2 or something), because this "fix" needs a fix of it's own.

bungusmaximus · Nov 09, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozy

was there a good purpose behind these changes? i don't see one.

Shake up the GvG meta (Everyone and his granny used LoD), but it was kind of a half assed job, because defense got nerfed, but offense is kept the same. Bottom line, many GvG-ers aren't too happy either because their teams get blown away by pressure.

zwei2stein · Nov 09, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Thinking a bit about it ... LoD got good ol' overnerf.

2s cast on monk skill that is NOT hard res? WOW. That really screams "never, ever run me again!"

BlackSephir · Nov 09, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

We will be evaluating the following changes over the course of the next week. Additional adjustments may be made during that time period.

UH-OH!1
I fear what future holds.